This is the sixth post by FedUp Mom, the mother of a fifth grader. FedUp Mom’s daughter used to attend a public school in suburban Philadelphia, but this year FedUp Mom moved her to a private Quaker school, hoping for a more relaxed environment. You can read her other posts here, here, here, here and here.
I Hate Reading Logs
by FedUp Mom
Every time I think we’ve solved the school problem something comes along to bite me in the rear. This week it’s the dreaded reading log. We found out about it from a letter the teachers sent home:
“Your child will be expected to read every night. We ask that you sign the log each night … We will also check the log regularly, in order to ensure follow through on your child’s part… Please sign the form below and return it to school tomorrow with your child.”
And now, the fun part:
“Thank you for your partnership in your child’s education.” (!)
And how does following the teacher’s directions make me a partner exactly? I feel more like an unpaid employee. Wait a minute — we’re paying them!
There was a little form at the bottom of the letter that said:
“I have read the above letter and agree to help my child by signing his/her log each night.”
I crossed this out and wrote in:
“We trust our daughter to do her reading.”
Then we signed it.
Then we sent the following e-mail to the teacher:
Teacher X: we have chosen not to participate in the reading log. We’ve experienced reading logs before and have these objections:
1.) They turn reading into a chore.
2.) They send a message that we don’t trust (daughter) to do the reading without meddling and micromanaging.
(Daughter) will do the reading she needs to do, but she won’t be logging the pages. Thank you.
I’m hoping that will be the end of it. I’m really tired of conferences and I’m sure we all have better things to do with our time.
Stop Homework 
I wish I had more time to follow all the interesting discussions here. Because reading is our family passion. My daughter has already read ten books outside of her required four this summer and this in the midst of six weeks away and plenty of onerous summer homework.
My daughter, a rising senior who, to this day, reads incessantly. I can tell you if I’d treated it as laundry or cleaning her room, no way would she be the ravenous reader she has been her entire life. As Alfie Kohn says, “you can make a child do something, but you cannot make him love it.” Love and passion is something else. It cannot be forced, it has to be cultivated and nurtured. We always read to our child, our daughter watched us read, we spent hours at the library together. Wait. You are going to tell me reading logs are necessary because Johnny doesn’t read. Huh?, as FedupMom wonders?
I wonder whether some of the teachers fiercely defending reading logs here are themselves passionate readers or perhaps secretly find reading a chore too. Be careful. If you treat the grand art of reading as a chore and chastise thoughtful parents for not turning in reading logs (who cares? What on earth do those logs have to do with reading and why do you assume that a reluctant reader will turn into a ready one once she fills out the log obediently?), you are more likely to do far more harm than good.
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Wouldn’t it be nice if you actually inquired about what they were reading and had a conversation with them while you did it?
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WHOA! You assume that if a parent doesn’t sign a reading log, she is showing zero interest in her child’s reading? Good grief. I’ve been known to read my daughter’s books so I can discuss them with her. I homeschooled her for a year. The novels we did I’d read in high school and college as an English major. I re-read them in tandem with my child that year and we had endless long discussions over them.
I would say over and over that homework prevented me from truly finding out what my daughter is learning. I am forever forced to cut intellectual discussions short so she can continue to do homework for hours and hours and hours every single night. You would think the weekend offered a reprieve, a healthy balance of hard weekday work followed by much needed weekend rest. Forget about it. And I see the damaging effects of burnout every day as we are now in the throes of college road trips. I have to constantly watch she not lose her love of learning, her creativity, her idealism, her zeal.
When it comes to my child’s learning, I’m there 150 percent. Please don’t equate a dislike of homework with a dislike of learning and involvement in our children’s lives.
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Thank god for Teacher Bey. Unfortunately I’m pretty sure that most of these fired up ladies aren’t going to pay enough attention to your words to really digest any of them.
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I, as a teacher and parent, have found your comments amusing. I love that those of you opposed to reading logs (and many other things) think you are working with the teachers after deciding that your child does not have to complete the given assignment. If you came to my classroom and made that declaration, I would not be very willing to work with you. If you came to me with your reasons and we discussed them, I would listen to you, explain my reasons and hope we could come to an understanding or at least agree to disagree.
If you came to me as a parent and made that declaration, I would probably laugh at you. I would also tell my children that they were not to listen to people that felt they could do what they wanted simply because they felt like it. I have spoken to my children (14, 12, & 7) about their reading logs. One hates them (14), one is ok with them (12), and one loves them (7). However, all three continue to read on their own. Go figure…
As a teacher, I disagree with your belief that reading logs will only make children hate to read. I have had countless children and parents thank me for requiring reading in my classroom. One parent this past year told me that I was the first teacher to ever require her twins to read at home. They didn’t mind reading, but were never required to do so. She loved that they now read together as a family and were able to have discussions about what they were reading. She even asked for a book we were reading in class so she could go over it with them. She did this on her own without insinuating that she was my unpaid aide…hmm…
I use reading logs in my classroom. This is normally the only homework I assign, unless the students are working on a research paper, which they have a month to complete both in class and at home if needed. (They don’t have to work on it at home, but many choose to do so in order to add extras we don’t have time for in class.) I allow my students to read whatever they want, i.e. books, newspaper, magazines, etc… They have to read for 30 minutes a night or 210 minutes a week, however it works best for them. The parent signs once. They write a brief summary about whatever they read. Then, each Friday any student that would like to share what they have been reading is given that opportunity.
A direct quote from a student last school year (and the reason I will continue this “dreaded” assignment) was this,”I never read a single book before you made me read. Now, I read everything.”
Now, she is not like your children, because she didn’t read already. But, the twins mentioned earlier did, and they still had a good result. My own children are growing up in households full of learning experiences and books and they have had positive experiences with reading logs – none have stopped reading.
I love my job. I love my students. I will continue to teach until I no longer love my job. While I became very angry at some of your comments, I would never allow your comments to disillusion me from being the best teacher I can be in my classroom. I just hope that your comments, and people who lump all teachers together as “bad,” don’t scare away the newer teachers that we desperately need to keep in the classroom, for the sake of your child and mine.
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Anonymous writes:
If you came to my classroom and made that declaration, I would not be very willing to work with you. If you came to me with your reasons and we discussed them, I would listen to you, explain my reasons and hope we could come to an understanding or at least agree to disagree.
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Anony, you seem to have a misunderstanding of how we parents go about business and you embody some really negative myths about parents. The outspoken ones are arrogant, condescending, dismissive, rude and uncooperative, you surmise. Some teachers here have expressed real anguish that they are not respected and that is a legitimate concern. Yet, I’d like teachers to pause for a moment and do some soul searching. So many start the school year already disliking parents and that comes through loud and clear.
Read your comments. Many of you really really don’t like parents. You say you don’t like us because of this blog, but c’mon. Your message is clear. We love your children (if that) but we don’t like you. Never mind that we spawned said children and without us, you wouldn’t have them. Your comments about parents are vitriolic. We either are completely uninvolved and don’t read to our children or take them to a museum. Except when we do and then we are vilified for doing exactly that because homework, no matter how mindless or useless, must always come first.
For starters, Anonymous, and I’ll speak for myself here, many of us do exactly as you suggest. We don’t march in and take over, demanding and threatening. In fact, most parents are quite the opposite. Many are submissive and bottle up the resentment because as one homeschooler put it, “you have our kids.” A lot of parents are actually really terrified of teachers and feel powerless because you have something vulnerable in your care all day long, our children..
I cannot agree with you more about working together and indeed have made your point many times on this blog. When you have time, read some more. But many of us did exactly what you suggest and got nowhere. Once, twice, three times. You speak up in public school, you are automatically labeled a troublemaker. A professional we were working with once counseled me, albeit misguidedly, “don’t say anything. She’ll become hostile towards your child, I see it all the time.”
When my daughter attended private school (K-4), I had very few teachers speak to me derisively and condescendingly. One of the two kindergarten teachers was pretty much it. Were all her private school teachers outstanding, professional, wise, inspiring, highly accomplished teachers? I wish I could say yes. In fact, some were quite mediocre. But almost all of them were pleasant, were not threatened, and really took the time to listen.
When I think back, I remember my email exchanges as respectful, diplomatic and gracious. I always tried to say something complementary (my daughter loved your literary discussion, she really enjoyed that field trip, she had a lot of fun making that diorama, even though it took all weekend) and usually I’d get something reasonable in exchange. When I didn’t, I’d ask for a meeting and we ironed things out.
The situation changed drastically when we entered public school. I was stunned at how I was now treated. Not just by teachers but most especially by office personnel. A writer in the Los Angeles Times last year hit this point home. She said parents are treated as felons when they walk into an office and suggested school reform begin with, “How may I help you this morning?” Parents are important in the equation. I’ll give ample credit where credit is due. My daughter’s current high school office people are darling and I love them to death. I will do anything for those two women, they treat me well and have never offered an unkind word. It goes both ways.
Some teachers here, you have to make peace with parents. Listen to them. Listen to us. It can’t just be about compliance. You’re a good little girl, you reason, you do what you’re told, you follow instructions to the letter of the law, so therefore, so should your little charges. And their idiotic parents, to boot.
That’s now what we want to grow. We want to raise thinking caring compassionate creative successful human beings. Stop telling parents their kids will wind up in jail if they don’t listen to the teacher and don’t do their reading logs. America was not built on blind compliance and it’s what has made this nation so great. Thomas Jefferson was an educated intellectual renaissance man. Let’s not lose what makes us so unique. Blind compliance can lead to very dangerous things.
“The price of liberty is eternal vigilance.” Thomas Jefferson
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“If you came to me as a parent and made that declaration, I would probably laugh at you.”
Wow! That says it all. Who’s being disrespectful here?
And notice that among your own children, the older they get, the less they like reading logs.
“I would also tell my children that they were not to listen to people that felt they could do what they wanted simply because they felt like it.”
You know, I am really not a big fan of unquestioning obedience. I think it’s completely reasonable for kids (and certainly their parents!) to question what goes on at school, and the assignments that get sent home. And I don’t tell my kids they don’t have to do something “simply because they felt like it”, this is a careful decision that I made in the best interest of my child’s education. My daughter did all of the assigned reading, she just didn’t log the pages, and I didn’t sign the log.
I used to be surprised at how many parents would complain bitterly to me about the homework their kids have to do, but never complain to the teacher. After I spent time trying to advocate for my child I understood it a little better. Teachers and administrators don’t want to hear the complaints, so they get defensive, dig in their heels, and refuse to make changes. They tell the parents, “we’ve never had any complaints before!” A lot of parents give up after a while.
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Like HomeworkBlues, I have experienced the difference between the way teachers and administration treat me at a private school vs. a public school. People often say to me, “Of course they treat you better at the private school, they need your money.”
But it’s really not that simple. The public school had plenty of motives to try to keep me there. They get money for every enrolled student (more than the tuition I’m now paying, I discovered.) Plus, they live and die by test scores, and my daughter’s scores are very high and made the school look good. When I told the principal that we were going to apply to private schools, it was clear from the horrified expression on her face that she didn’t want us to go.
Yet none of that was enough for the principal or teachers to make the changes that would have made it possible for my daughter to stay in the system, without the chronic anxiety and depression that were ruining her childhood.
I think this is a good example of how difficult it is to change a culture once it has taken root. It’s also an example of how carrots and sticks often don’t have their intended consequence. The constant focus on test scores has produced a regimented, hostile environment that ultimately causes high-scoring kids to flee the public schools.
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An excerpt from “Bad Teachers”, by Guy Strickland:
“The teacher wants a sense of control over her world. She has created a microcosm in her classroom in which she is the supreme being. Teachers like the feeling of control, and are often resentful of interference …
“The teacher, having established her control over her little world, wants that control to continue … She may even attempt to close off any avenues of parental interference or involvement.
“Parents should also be aware that there is a dark side to the teacher’s need for control … Some people aspire to be teachers, not from altruism or a love of children, but because it gives them the opportunity to play God with people smaller and less powerful than themselves. All of us, especially children, need to be protected from people with a pathological need for control.”
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FedupMom, excellent. We have encountered exactly what you quote above.
Yes, there are many good teachers. But a very respected teacher’s advocate, after listening to my stories over the years finally conceded this, “some teachers are petty dictators.” The woman I quote is a well known national figure who doggedly fights for teachers’ rights. We had long discussions about the control issue, the rigid homework policies, the derision. Yes, it hit me like a bolt of lightning after she declared that. Some (many) teachers are dictators in the classroom.
There. I said it. It’s not about bashing teachers. You think we busy harried parents, trying to put bread on the table and keep our children clothed, fed and loved, have nothing better to do? I’ve said it here before. We are loath to criticize teachers. We treat it like the priesthood.
Bad things happen in dark corners. Sunshine, shedding light on a problem no one wants to address, is a good thing.
On another front, and back to good teachers: This national advocate wondered why more teachers haven’t signed anti-NCLB petitions, taken a stand, stood up for justice. She loves teachers, she was one herself for twenty five years.
She finally wrote, many teachers may have submissive personalities to begin with, they are sweet and kind and tend to feel strongly about following directions. I’ll be less sanguine. When teachers write that they do what they are told, it’s out of their control, it then becomes the pecking order. Feeling completely powerless to control their teaching environment in the face of their higher ups, they take that need to control young submissive charges and they want undying devotion and obedience. The good little girl who does all her homework is the teacher’s pet. Sweet, compliant, submissive, aiming to please; these are still qualities we admire in girls today. Pretty, to boot, just ups the ante.
Some teachers say they’ll listen to parents if they are reasonable and respectful. My experience in that elementary school shows that to be untrue. The more educated the parent, the more level headed, the more involved, the more threatening.
If only we could rid the system of all the bad teachers to make room for the truly awesome ones. But union rules seem to preclude, No, I’m not union bashing, there’s a place for it. But what has your union done about No Child Left Untested?
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I have spoken to my children (14, 12, & 7) about their reading logs. One hates them (14), one is ok with them (12), and one loves them (7). However, all three continue to read on their own. Go figure…
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The greater question I have for you, why is your fourteen year old still being assigned reading logs? That is WAY too old to be doing this busy work, he’s in high school! I will say this. In gifted programs, they are not assigned. We haven’t seen reading logs, I think, since third grade. It may be assumed that gifted kids enjoy reading. Which is condescending to non-gifted ones. Many children would love reading if the passion hadn’t been crushed by well meaning but clueless adults.
Also, watch the progression. Your little one loves reading logs, the middle one not so much and the teenager hates them. I rest my case.
You say all three still read. Then why the logs? I have to hide books so my daughter would do her homework, she got chastised for reading too much. Reading logs would have been hilarious.That’s like asking me, an overweight person, to show proof of my eating.
I doubt your children read more because of those logs (I still cannot see the point) but in spite of them. The logs are unnecessary and a huge waste of time. Aren’t they? Even if your kid can whip them out, what’s the point? Just ask the kid to tell you what he read. That oughta do the trick!
Your principal insisting on those logs? Wait, he comes to your classroom each week and scans every single sheet of paper to make sure you are doing your job? Doesn’t he have anything better to do? I agree with PsychMom. Fake him out. As a blogger on Teacher Revised says, when that door closes, you still have control. I don’t mean controlling the kids, but control over your own destiny there, imbuing your classroom with your values and working around those scripted lesson plans. I’m not saying it’s easy. But years after NCLB was enacted, it’s time for some “reform.”
Back to the logs, I knew many many parents who filled out those damn sheets in lieu of the children. They decided it wasn’t worth the nagging, pick your battles but dared not stand up to you. We are in danger when everyone’s playing a game.
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I posted the excerpt from “Bad Teachers” because I think it’s getting to the core of the problem.
With some teachers, there’s no such thing as a respectful way to object to an assignment, because the objection itself is perceived as disrespectful. Some teachers are so thin-skinned that the meekest and mildest complaint is perceived as an attack on their authority.
We have to acknowledge that part of the mix here is that it’s usually mothers who advocate for their child at school. The contempt directed toward mothers by the public school has to be seen to be believed. It’s a hierarchical mindset, and mothers are at the bottom of the heap. What? A mere mother says she objects to busywork? How dare she! It’s as if the earthworms in your garden suddenly announced they were going on strike because your compost isn’t good enough.
One of the few things in “The Case Against Homework” that I’m not crazy about are all the instructions about how to negotiate with teachers. Does anyone write books targeted at men that include step-by-step examples of what to say so that you will be perceived as respectful and unthreatening? Of course not. Men are allowed to say what they think.
And my own experience has been that my attempts at being respectful made no difference at all. My negotiating got me nowhere at the public school, but the private school has made real changes for me. It’s not because my negotiating changed (if anything, I become less deferential over time), it’s because the culture of the private school includes listening to parents.
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FedUpMom, again, you hit the nail on the head. Heather wants real dialogue to take place and I agree. But we must first get to the very core of the problem. Bad teachers, disdain towards parents particularly mothers (they listen when dad talks but not when I do and he is not more articulate than I am), incredibly thin skinned teachers who fly off the handle and perceive every little concern as a full blown attack and the hierarchal mindset that treats parents as an unnecessary meddlesome intrusion. If we don’t get to the organic core here, we cannot proceed.
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FedUpMom, with regard to mothers, see my earlier post above. When it comes to girls, teachers, especially female ones, to this day reward and like the girls who are sweet, compliant, do every drop of homework, smile a lot and aim to please. Girls see this and model such behavior in order to be liked. Boys are conditioned to be assertive, girls are still conditioned to be liked.
Pretty unbelievable, considering this is 2009! Feminist leaders, where are you now when we need you the most? Women are still supposed to be seen and not heard. An assertive mother is still seen as anathema.
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As a case in point, consider what the anonymous teacher above said:
“If you came to my classroom and made that declaration, I would not be very willing to work with you.”
In other words, “I choose not to listen to you because you aren’t deferential enough.” How patronizing is that? It’s the way I talk to my rammy 6-year-old. “I won’t push you on the swing if you don’t say please!” No one addresses an equal this way.
And if you go in there hat in hand, and try to be deferential and polite, and beg for a few scraps, guess what? They still ignore you. Because all your deference just confirms their belief that they are in charge and you are an underling.
I’m not advocating that anyone should go in to the teacher’s conference and start screaming and throwing things, although I understand the impulse. Of course, we should treat everyone with a reasonable level of civility and respect. Yes, we should listen and try to understand the teacher’s point of view. Yes, let’s be sure to say something positive. I make an effort to acknowledge when something’s going well in the classroom, and let the teachers know I appreciate it. But let’s not give away our rights as parents. Let’s not buy into the system that makes teachers and administrators petty tyrants who treat everyone with disdain.
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I wanted to share something I read on another forum:
http://www.mothering.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=1126640
I’ve known people who boast that their children are going to the “best” schools, attended by the children who perform well academically and who come from “good” families – high income, professional parents. Yet these schools struggle with drug problems (students who can afford ‘designer’ drugs) and cheating (on a high tech basis – cell phone misuse during exams, sophisticated plagiarism off the internet) and mental health issues (too much pressure on the students to produce, as opposed to learn).
Boy does that describe our local “high-performing” schools.
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FedUp, I’d love to read this. But the link didn’t take us directly to the article. Can you resend it? Thanks!
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Hmm … you may have to try going here:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions/
then look for the heading “Education” and choose “Learning At School.” The comment I quoted from is from a thread titled “Can smart kids survive a lousy school?”
Actually, you can Google “smart kids lousy school” and find the thread faster.
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I wish that all parents understood your point of view. As a teacher, I am getting notes and emails wondering why I don’t give tons of homework and reading logs. Why? The kids either 1) aren’t doing it, 2) don’t understand it, 3) don’t care either way. I don’t want to make these kids hate school.
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I was reading the comments from Fedup Mom and Homework Blues all weekend and saying “yes, yes” to my computer screen. I was going to bring up the point about the “control” issue for teachers, but hesitated to. Aside from my recent experience with schooling and my youngster, I’ve had 25 years of friends who are teachers, co-workers who have teacher spouses, clients that were teachers, I had an aunt who was a school teacher….and in almost every single case, when that teacher gets into conflict or gets into a personal dilemma, the prime reason is a control issue. Some teachers run into conflict with other adults (aside from parents) because the other adult doesn’t particularly want to do things the way the teacher does and it causes conflict. And I think we see so many teachers off on stress leave because battling for control of everything, all the time is stressful. In the case of my aunt, over-control may have hastened her death because she withheld information from doctors which delayed treatment.
Going with the flow is easier on everyone, but the schooling system just can’t seem to handle that one.
The other point about blind obedience gets me too. The teachers who have been writing in lately seem to think that just because they think what they’re prescribing is correct, that no one should question it. But they should be teaching our kids to question absolutely everything. Take nothing for granted!! That’s the basis for critical thinking and analysis.
This blind unthinking obedience shuts kids down. You are mistaking structure and obedience. Yes, kids need structure..they need predictability. The classroom is ideal for those two things when you are there everyday and organizing the day for the children. But your grasp cannot reach out beyond the classroom…and it shouldn’t.
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Regarding the comments on teachers treating comments from fathers differently than mothers, I’m not sure I agree.
The oddity I’ve noticed (as just one person, this is a very small sample size so it may mean nothing) is that when I’ve dealt with other men (one teacher and one principal) the conversations have been very productive with me feeling the teacher listened to what I had to say and considered it even if we ultimately had to agree to disagree. After those conversations I felt like even if things didn’t change now, they might in the future if enough parents chimed in.
My dealings with female teachers, however, has been very similar to what the rest of you have experienced: either a completely defeatist attitude (administration makes me do this, sorry, goodbye), mindless agreement, but continuing everything as-is once I went away, or thinly veiled hostility (once outright rudeness).
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Matthew — trust me, this is one of those things that you can’t possibly observe for yourself because you’re a man. Unless you can convincingly disguise yourself as a woman and try having those conferences again, the fact of you being in the room changes the whole dynamic.
Whatever difficulty you’ve had with female teachers, rest assured, if they were talking to a woman they’d be even worse.
As for men? Hmm … the public school that I took my daughter out of had a surprising number of male teachers (proof that they pay well, I expect.) Of the 4 men teachers my daughter had while she was there, I’d say one was quite good, one was pretty good, one was mediocre, and one was an absolute train wreck and a big part of the reason we left. About the same range as the female teachers, in other words. And, at least from my point of view, male and female treated me about the same. Teachers who did a good job in the classroom tended to listen to me and treat me reasonably. Bad teachers were the first to get defensive and hostile.
Actually, this highlights another problem. The bad teacher, the one you most need to make changes, is also the one who is least willing to listen to you. Then the principal figures it’s her job to back up the teacher. Then what?
I’d like to report a conversation I had with one of the men teachers, as an example many others could usefully follow. This teacher had been sending home quite a lot of homework, much of which I returned with a note explaining why we weren’t doing it. We had a conversation at our first parent-teacher conference that went like this:
Me: You’ve probably noticed that I sent a lot of the homework back undone. I really don’t believe in homework for elementary school kids.
Him: My policy is, I never argue with parents about homework.
And that was that. He didn’t punish my daughter for the undone homework, either, because I had written a note.
He was also the only person in the school who expressed concern over my daughter’s depression and anxiety. He left the school the next year.
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For more on sexism in school, this is an excellent article:
http://sengifted.org/articles_social/Reis_SocialAndEmotionalIssuesFacedByGiftedGirls.shtml
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A few more thoughts about the control issue.
I’ve noticed that teachers who are all about control really lack perspective. A teacher posted on this blog, predicting that my daughter who got out of keeping a reading log at 11 will be in jail at 25. These are the teachers who honestly believe that a child who simply forgot to do some trivial piece of her homework is being “defiant” and deserves to be punished. These are the teachers who believe that if a child flunks a test, she must be “lazy” and should be forced to work harder. Everything that doesn’t go the way the teacher wants is taken as a personal attack.
For a sensitive child, who hates any suggestion of unfairness, getting stuck with one of these teachers is like living in a Kafka novel.
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I wanted to highlight something from the article I mentioned above:
http://sengifted.org/articles_social/Reis_SocialAndEmotionalIssuesFacedByGiftedGirls.shtml
“Teachers were usually able to identify gifted boys, but were often surprised to learn that a girl was considered smart.”
Ouch. Been there, done that, both as a child and as a parent.
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As a general idea of unfairness…and this is not directed at teachers per se…how harsh are we with kids????
Because one course is flunked, I know of a child who had to go to summer school, no trip to visit family and no trip to Disney with the rest of the family. It sounds a bit harsh to me…
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I found your blog last night as my 13 yr old was on her 5th hour of homework. Below is an email I am sending to the principal and superintendant of our district because I am still fuming:
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I would appreciate you looking into the homework situation at SFMS. It is the beginning of the 3rd week of school and last night my eighth grade daughter spent 5 hours doing work that came home from 4 different subjects. The first week of school, 3 out of the 5 nights she had 4 hours each night. Last week was a bit lighter, but not by much. It was manageable, and more in line with what I expect. However, when she came home with as much as she did last night, I knew I had to say something. Are you aware that they are in your school for 7 hours each day? Why should there be another 4-5 hours of extra work coming home? I cannot imagine that there is so much information that has to be crammed into their minds that it can’t be done in the time of a class period each day. You do realize that besides being able to read, have good communication skills and the ability to process information, the rest is pure trivia that they will only retain if they use it on a regular basis? I would love for there to be a more creative excuse than getting them ready for high school because I know quite a few advanced level children in high school that do not bring home this kind of homework and I need to know what is going to be done about it at the middle school level.
Please correct me if I’m wrong, but these kids only get to be kids once. They don’t get home from school until 5pm and then are expected to sit down and do another 4-5 hours of work after sitting and doing the same type of work all day? Let me tell you how this is working for my family: it’s not. The only thing that is happening here is that she is getting discouraged and I would hate for my daughter to not succeed due to being burnt out from extra busy work given in the eighth grade. Maybe you can tell me where I can schedule all of the “extracurricular” activities she needs to be doing in order to keep her well rounded and have for her college application. At this rate, she has already downgraded from becoming an orthodontist to not knowing due to the daunting reality of trying to accomplish that goal.
There are 5 academic classes taught each day. I am sure that a school full of intelligent educators like yourselves will be able to come up with an adequate schedule which will allow your teaching professionals to plan around each others assignments in order that homework hours of this magnitude cease in the very near future.
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Please feel free to comment!
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And this is why we are on this site!!!! Welcome to the fold “NOHMEWRKmom”.
Your letter is good. You should try to get Sara’s book and read it too. Follow your letter up with a visit with the principal.
What you’re describing is what we’re all trying to protect our children from. Just how long do they think a 13 year old is going to be able survive under that kind of pressure?
Maybe setting some limits for your daughter/your family about how much homework will be done would be a place to start. Every family has limits for all kinds of things…no smoking in the house, no disrespectful language, no walking across the carpet with boots on…rules of the home we all live by. If the rule in your family is 1 hour of homework a night, then outside influences have to respect that.
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Welcome NOHMEWRKMom!
Your letter to the principal is a very good start.
While you’re waiting for a response from the principal, which could take a while, I completely agree with PsychMom. Make a policy for your own home and stick with it. Even Harris Cooper, who appointed himself the country’s expert on homework (that’s another discussion) thinks middle school kids should never have more than 1 1/2 hours per night of homework. Anything over that and you’re just burning the kids out.
So you could start with a time limit that you enforce for your child. Once she’s gotten to an hour and a half (or whatever limit you choose), close the books and take her out to the park or out for a walk or play a board game or whatever. Write notes to her teachers explaining that this was your decision and she should not be punished for unfinished homework.
Everyone focuses on quantity, and when it gets to 5 hours that’s understandable, but there’s also the issue of quality. Some homework isn’t worth 5 minutes of our kids’ time, as Alfie Kohn rightly points out. Take a look at your daughter’s homework. Is it really helping her learn, or is it busywork?
A policy I decided on for my family was that I wasn’t going to force my child to do anything unless I felt that it was worth doing. That knocked out a huge percentage of the homework right there. If my daughter enjoys doing it (she likes making dioramas, go figure!) I don’t stand in the way, but if she hates it and I can see it’s pointless, I tell her not to do it and I write a note to the teacher.
Best of luck to you. Please post again and let us know how you’re doing.
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Just to reinforce what FedUp Mom wrote…for me, this whole change of mind about school and homework began with thinking about what I value and what’s important to my family. My child comes first, her health and wellbeing…happiness a close third. Close family bonds are important because it’s just the two of us and when we’re fightning over a third party’s idea of a “fun family learning activity”, I must shake my head and think again. We need to get back to the basics…family, time spent with family and nurturance of childhood. We do not need to constantly prepare for anything (ie, Middle School, High School, college)…they will come in their own time and if we’re well adjusted people we can cope with anything.
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NOHOMEWORK, I feel for you completely. My daughter was putting in upwards of six hours in 6th grade. When I made her stop and go to bed, the teacher was nasty to her the next day. I stood my ground, sending an email that was not deferential and did not back down. Enough is enough.
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And another 2cents:
As a teacher, I’d love to get away from reading logs and spend more time IN CLASS just reading – both me and the students. Sadly, with all the teaching requirements and benchmark tests and ed. standards to cover and…well you get the picture. Reading for fun at school is a luxury that is not often attainable.
The trust issue regarding reading at home is, IMHO, is evaluated on a case-by-case basis. I can trust some of my students to read every night w/o supervision. And I can trust that some of my students will be goofing off until 10pm w/o supervision.
Regarding nightly homework, I hate it too. Homework should be given when it will specifically enrich what was taught in class that day. My students receive homework maybe 3 days/week – and that’s if they don’t finish it in the classroom before they go home. That’s right – I make sure the kids have time to do their homework where the teacher can help them directly. shocking!
Projects – I give out projects 4-5 times a year. Since many schools in our district don’t have time for art/music/etc, the projects always involve a creative element as well as an academic element. They’re only graded on the academic side. As long as they follow instructions (or can show how their creative element fits the criteria) they get full credit for that part of it.
Comments?
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To BigDaddyTeacher
You didn’t say what grade you teach…my comments would depend on the age of the children.
Projects are fine…relevant homework is fine too. I guess my perspective would be..it’s all fine, as long as it’s age appropriate, it can be completed by the child independently and isn’t sent home as a “family” project, and it takes no more than half an hour (or less) to do. It’s the invasion of school work into my family’s homelife that I object to, especially in the elementary grades.
The one comment I would make is around what you said about some students goofing off and being unsupervised. Again…why do teachers feel they can dictate what a child does after 3:15? All you can control is what goes on in your classroom. Whether someone is goofing off til 10 pm is really not something you can control…so why bother trying? That’s my territory as the parent. And in my house if it’s 10 pm my child has been asleep for at least an hour if not longer.
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You don’t like public school? Get your kids out of it. Teach them yourselves. I’m tired of complaining parents. You think you can do a better job? Let’s see it. Homeschool (desocialize, isolate, and spoil) your kids – better for teachers that distrusting and overly-critical parents are NOT in the picture.
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What do you think your kids will be doing in college? They won’t just get to lay around afterschool and read books without some level of accountability. Try that with a college professor and see what happens.
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College is not elementary school. She won’t be 8 years old…she’ll be 18 and an adult. And because I’ll have made sure that she got a good education AND enough rest and good food and a well balanced life…she should be very successful in whatever she chooses to do.
Hopefully, I’ll have kept her spirits up despite coping with an educational system that thinks the only way she’ll learn is to follow blindly and not question anything her teachers tell her.
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“You don’t like public school? Get your kids out of it. Teach them yourselves.”
That is in fact what many parents are doing. It’s called homeschooling. And by and large, it seems to work pretty well.
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“Homeschool (desocialize, isolate, and spoil) ”
You really think that’s what homeschooling amounts to? That if you homeschool, you desocialize your kids? My daughter had her best socialization year outside of school, rather than in it.
You think homeschoolers are isolated? You think they sit home all day? What about co-op classes, drama, Girl Scouts, Sea Scouts, baseball, football, robotics, ballet, ice skating, park day, museums, outdoor classical concerts, plays, lectures, art programs, history, science, math leagues, Odyssey of the Mind; why, I could go on forever. Oh, boy, do you have a lot to learn about the world of homeschooling.
Spoiled? What causes you to draw that conclusion? We are not wealthy, not by a long shot. Homeschoolers I know volunteer in hospitals, raise money for cancer, clean up parks and streams, do far more community service than schooled kids. Families learn to live with a lot less because the public school, which purports says “we meet the needs of every child,” in fact leaves many many children behind.
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What do you think your kids will be doing in college? They won’t just get to lay around afterschool and read books without some level of accountability. Try that with a college professor and see what happens.
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Now that’s classic. I can tell you that my husband teaches at an Ivy League University, and he’s thrilled to get students who have a genuine interest in the subject. He’d be very happy to get a student who read books on their own time and out of their own interest. Since when does anyone have to account for their reading?
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You don’t like public school? Get your kids out of it.
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I did take my kids out of the public school, thanks for asking. If you were my kid’s teacher, and you told me to leave the school, you’d be in big trouble with the principal. My daughter has very good test scores, which of course the principal wanted to keep in the public schools, and I volunteered my time and gave money to help support the school. It was not a good day for the school when we left.
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It would appear that the reading logs were designed to ensure that your child actually reads the required readings…I’m sure the school only had the best interests of your child in mind…and I am quite convinced that there would be many child who cannot bring themselves to read without a parent breathing down their neck – therefore, yes, I agree…maybe the reading log is not ideal for someone in your circumstances…however, I would think it is pertinent to reading development for children who are less motivated and trustworthy as yours.
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John — you give a very good argument for an opt-out policy.
With an opt-out policy, parents could decide whether each piece of homework was appropriate for their own child, and make changes to the assignment as needed. Then they would write a note to the teacher explaining what they had done, with the understanding that the child would not be punished for unfinished homework.
If a school had an official policy that they would not argue with parents about what they do at home, and would accept notes, it would result in a lot less headache all around.
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John, I’ll cut you a deal. Give to them, not to us. We read. She reads. We don’t breath down her neck to read. Maybe there’s a connection?There was plenty of evidence she was reading. No reading log recording needed.
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“I can tell you that my husband teaches at an Ivy League University…”
Well that explains a lot. Sorry if you haven’t noticed, but MOST people don’t have the financial ability to homeschool their kids and take them here and there all over the city (museums, plays, etc.). Parents with money think they know it all, which is another reason why I am SO GLAD you’re kids are not in public school and you and your husband don’t think you can control the school and the principal because you “gave money.” I don’t even think this is about reading logs. I think this is about parents wanting to control how a classroom is run. Like I said before, if you can do better – do it. I get paid $35,000 a year. That is simply not enough money for me to put up with parents with nothing better to do than to terrorize a teacher. Maybe your principal was upset about you leaving but I can’t imagine the teacher shedding tears for a “FedUp Mom.” Where are all the FedUp Teachers?
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Sorry if you haven’t noticed, but MOST people don’t have the financial ability to homeschool their kids and take them here and there all over the city (museums, plays, etc.). Parents with money think they know it all,
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Please allow me the moment to clear up a glaring misconception. Most homeschoolers I know are not rich. Yes, there will always be the proverbial homeschooler who’s taken out of school because the parents are sailing around the world or mom got a research expedition assignment in Antarctica for a year and thought it would be cool to take the kids along for a few months. You go, mom!
But…that does not describe the majority of homeschoolers. When we did it for a year, we took money out of our IRA (and wound up paying hefty fees) in order to finance two on line courses. We didn’t have the money. We were paying Peter to rob Paul. I continued freelancing while my daughter read in the next room but admittedly had to put much of that on hold.. Where I live, many museums are free so we took ample advantage of the educational and cultural goldmine we find ourselves in.
We didn’t homeschool because we were rich. We homeschooled for that year because the homework overload and sleep deprivation were intolerable and I wanted to keep the love of learning, the spark, the imagination, alive. We homeschooled because we didn’t see a better option at that time. It was not a luxury and we agonized long and hard over it. The major sticking point was, you guessed it, MONEY! We didn’t have much and my husband reasoned we could not do it. But we found a way.
There’s a marvelous book, “Homeschooling on a Shoestring budget” you should take a look at. Many homeschoolers I know well make up in resourcefulness what they lack in money. If you have the wit, imagination, and creativity to cobble something together, you’d be amazed at how far that can take you. I’m not saying homeschooling is for everyone. But please lose that “we don’t need all you elitists, good riddance” attitude.
We had a magical homeschool year. To the school’s credit, it was hardly an awful place. It was merely okay while what we had instead was heaven. You can either muddle through and get a ho-hum education or decide, this is your child’s life, they get only one, you get only one long chunk of time at being their parent,so why not make the educational journey as exciting, fulfilling and adventurous as possible?
Yea, yea, I know some things will be boring. Of course I know that. But that mindset completely misses the point of childhood. It misses wonder and imagination and creativity. You never want to steal wonder. Great things come from wonder. Far better than apathy, as I see in so many of my daughter’s teen friends.
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Anonymous — I didn’t bring up my husband’s profession to talk about money, it’s because you were making statements about what college professors want. I live with a college professor and I know that he wants students who are genuinely interested in learning, not just doing what the teacher told them. The school grind is destroying our kids’ natural curiosity.
You say, “Parents with money think they know it all.” What qualifications would I have to have to convince you that my perspective should be taken into account? This is not about money. Where we live, we’re actually in the lower bracket financially. This is about parents, who, no matter how much they know about education, are treated with total hostility from teachers like you.
When it comes to reading logs, I’m not trying to control the classroom. I’m trying to control my own home! I’m trying to set limits on what I do in my own home with my own daughter. When an assignment comes home that I know will be bad for our family life, and also bad for my daughter’s education, I have a right to say no.
I’m not “terrorizing” anyone.
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Anonymous, you’ve got it backwards. It isn’t that parents want to control the classroom, it’s that many teachers want to control a child’s, and by extension, a family’s home life. You need to stop thinking of after school hours as merely an extension of the school day where parents are your involuntary unpaid teacher’s aides.
Once you begin to understand that the very last thing we parents want is to terrorize you and that we signed onto this blog initially because we were so distraught over what we saw was a destructive force in our home life, then we can start talking.
I am sorry you only get paid $35,000 a year. Sadly, you embody that old adage, “you get what you pay for.” But it might help if you would use more reasoning and less emotion. After all, isn’t that what you should be instilling in your students? Balance, inquiry, analysis? If not, and you want blind allegiance, then you are doing a marvelous job preparing your little charges for…the assembly line.
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Anonymous asks, “where are all the FedUp teachers”? I expect they’re in the classroom, taking out their frustrations on our kids. It’s not a pretty picture.
We’re going in circles here. I’ve already posted about the thin-skinned control freak. How is it “terrorizing” a teacher for a parent to refuse to do an assignment which she knows is bad for her daughter? Holy cow.
“If you can do better, do it”. What profession would allow its practitioners to speak this way to a client? If I complain to the doctor that the prescription isn’t working, would she say, “if you can do better, you go to medical school and become a doctor!” Of course not. She would say, “let’s talk about your symptoms. Let’s look for another treatment, if this one doesn’t work.” If you want to be treated as a professional, you need to behave like one.
Which gets us down to a really basic issue. If teachers are professionals, who is their client? Whom do they serve? Shouldn’t it be the kids and their parents?
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I agree that we are going in complete circles around here. Suppose a teacher comes on who does not agree with us? But she couches her comments as, “I am listening to your concerns. Please talk to me. Let’s see what we can work out.” Or how about, “wow, I am a young teacher, I have no school aged children, I had no idea my homework was taking that long, thank you for opening my eyes,” or even, “I may disagree with you but I am still concerned that homework is causing so much pain in your household,” now we’re talking.
I’m not wild about the “I don’t agree with you” part because it shows the teacher hasn’t stopped to read and learn, but at least it shows consideration and a willingness to be open minded. What I cannot abide is this thinly veiled disdain of parents, particularly mothers, and the rude dismissive way in which some teachers here speak to us.
When a teacher comes on, disregards every position we have taken, every point we have made, sneers at us to get the hell out, labels us all as wealthy whiny snobs, all it does is reinforce to us how some teachers are control freaks, petty dictators one well known educator calls them, want undying devotion from their students, complete compliance, no questions asked, from their parents, and are really not interested in this so-called partnership between home and school.
If all you ever want are cookies and PTA minions, let’s be honest. It’s not a partnership so we can all just stop pretending it is.
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I accidentally came upon this website when searching for reading logs to give to my students this year for homework. This blog has really made me rethink the validity of the entire idea and really homework in general. Reading the comments from so many frustrated parents has been insightful, because I honestly never thought about how homework can invade a child’s home/after-school life. I applaud the parents who advocate for their kids and the tremendous weight homework can put on their shoulders. As a teacher, I want parents to feel like partners in the classroom and having conversations like this one can only help kids get the best educational experiences possible. The last thing I want to do is to stress my students out, so I’ll probably make the reading logs optional.
One thing I noticed by this site is a distinct divide between teachers and parents and while I do think discussion is important, it seems to get hostile. There are huge assumptions being made on both sides. I think teachers and parents BOTH need to have a generosity of the spirit. I am not, and have never been interested in doing harm to any student in my class – that’s not why I teach. In the same way, I don’t think concerned parents are trying to “terrorize” teachers. There has to be middle ground on which teachers and parents can both feel validated.
I think this is important to keep in mind: Teachers have kids for 7 hours a day for only 9 months. Parents have kids for a lifetime. Parents are a child’s first teachers and parents know their kids the best. I believe good, effective teachers honor this. It is very sad to me that so many families have experienced such negative experiences with public schools, especially because kids and their opinion of school and learning are caught in the crossfire.
I will definitely have a different mindset about homework going into this new school year.
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VA Teacher — thank you thank you thank you! It’s great to hear from an open-minded teacher. I’m so glad you came across this site.
I too would like to have a more civilized discussion, but sometimes it’s difficult to achieve.
Here’s something I would love to see. Could you start the school year by asking parents for their ideas about homework? Ask them to let you know what their experience has been. Does it cause problems at home? Does it help their children learn? What are examples of good assignments and bad assignments?
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