A few posts ago, I wrote about the blog of Angela Bunyi, a fourth grade teacher from Murfreesboro, Tennessee. Ms. Bunyi then write to me:
Thanks for sharing my article under Scholastic (Homework: Applying Research to Policy) and my note from the homework page on my class site. I wanted to add to your readers ongoing discussion about reading logs. I did away with them this year. I also did away with a specific reading time at home.
Why? First, I don’t want students reading to the clock. The thought of seeing “30 minutes” read for child after child in the daily reading log is really, really sad if you think about it. My goal is for students to get “lost” in their homework.
Second, I did away with reading logs because they were a pain for all involved. When I did use them, I found my best readers didn’t fill them out. Now I just meet with my kids during reading conference time to talk about their reading habits at home. When a student was on page 35 the day before and they are on page 75 the next morning, why push a log? I can do the math! The proof is with the pace of finishing books in your room each week.
Stop Homework 
As a 4th grade teacher I have to say I find it amusing there are adults who think I “assign” homework to make parents teach their children.
First, after teaching subject matter my students are given time to practice skills in class. If they do not finish the practice, then it is homework. Some students waste all sorts of time, even with prompts, rewards, punishments, recesses in, extra help etc. If the parents put students academics first, the students value their academics, and often those are the kids who appreciate their education, even if they are 9 years old.
Parents who reward their kid with a sunny day, but who also support their child as a student are the parents of those students can spend an afternoon outside. But the parents who meet with me and say “Oh well, I didn’ t do well in math” or “I didn’t like school” or “We had soccerballetfootballdancelacrossehorsebackridingsunnydaybusyrunningerrandsranoutoftime” those students think of their education as secondary and it always shows. The kids don’t know the material, are frustrated, tired, and my favorite “are bored”. You actually have to have a grasp of the basics before you get to be “bored”. No one wants to say it but many of the “bored” kids aren’t gifted. They are lazy. That’s right. They want to be spoon fed information like a mindless video game. They can’t use a dictionary. They think everything should be covered under “spellcheck”. No wonder other countries are kicking our asses in education. Those kids aren’t sitting at home playing 2 hours of “Grand Theft Auto” and watching who knows what the rest of the night.
I have had students involved in many different activities after school who NEVER turned in any assignments late and whose parents never complain. They understand that their child’s most important job is their education. No excuses. I love those parents.
As for reviewing time tables at home or reading with your kids, fine, don’t. If your child isn’t keeping up with the pace which is set for the average child, then I don’t know if it matters who you blame when he or she is working at McDonald’s and still can’t count back change. I know I did my part to cover the material using various methods and in creative ways, and in between providing everything from basic manners to basic life skills to over 60% (that’s correct, 60%) of the class on top of reading, writing and math I know I put in a full day.
If a parent doesn’t put their child’s education first, then the child won’t care either. If you choose to have one child or 6 children or 11, it is still your job to participate in their education. If your child has never seen a book and enters kingergarten, then yes, they are at a disadvantage. It isn’t my fault you had more children than you could handle. But I will try my best to educate them all, even if you are too tired to help with homework. Or to disorganized to run your life. I guess that is my fault, too?
And finally, why are so many people writing 7 page papers in the middle of the night before they are due? I find it hard to believe those assignments were assigned that day. More than likely they were assigned much earlier in the week or even weeks before, and then they were put off until the last minute. I have received phone calls about those assignments. I have sent packets home with all the information and due dates and had parents sign them, only to have parents tell me “they didn’t know” or they “forgot”. If I show them where they signed off on the packet, they get pissed at me. I am sorry I tried to give you information to help you help your child get an education. Sorry I tried to keep you informed about the things we are covering. I thought you might be interested. But nevermind! Now I understand your child’s future only matters between 8 and 4!
So, on top of their child not caring if they do any work in class, even with everything I can think of to get them to do the assignment, I always have those who have their arsenal of excuses. Then the parents come with their excuses. The apple never falls far from the tree.
If I only had to teach to motivated students and interested parents…but I will try to teach the rest, too in the hopes that it will make the difference to at least one or two of the kids.
Oh, and one other thing. My mom spent many hours with me, practicing counting change, reviewing multiplication tables, reading to me, and caring about me. She did the same with my brother. My parents came from nothing. They knew school came first. I still played with friends on the weekends. She never bitched. She wanted me to have a great education. Thanks, Mom I guess you really are one in a million.
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Jen098 — I am getting so tired of reading these hostile messages from teachers. We keep hearing about “teacher-bashing”, but what about the constant drumbeat of kid-bashing and parent-bashing?
“I have had students involved in many different activities after school who NEVER turned in any assignments late and whose parents never complain. They understand that their child’s most important job is their education. No excuses. I love those parents.”
Guess what — some of those perfect assignments that get turned in on time from uncomplaining parents are FAKED. These parents don’t want to rock the boat, but they’ve only got 24 hours in the day like the rest of us. They want their kids to enjoy their sports or their sunny day, and they’re tired of harassing their kids about the homework, so they just do it for them. You think that doesn’t happen?
Please, don’t send packets home with due dates. There’s no way a 9 year old child can organize all that herself, and it’s not fair to hold the child responsible for her parents’ compliance.
“If your child isn’t keeping up with the pace which is set for the average child, then I don’t know if it matters who you blame when he or she is working at McDonald’s and still can’t count back change. I know I did my part to cover the material …”
There’s a saying over at kitchen table math:
“If the student didn’t learn, the teacher didn’t teach.”
Take ownership of what you do. If there’s a child who isn’t keeping pace with the material, that’s the school’s responsibility to fix. Does the child have a learning disability? Or does the child actually know the material but she’s become noncompliant because of boredom and alienation? What’s going on? Don’t just blame the parents.
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Jen098,
I completely agree with FedUpMom but I’m going to add a bit of my own.
I’m concerned that you don’t feel sports, exercise, family time, errands, relaxation, etc. are as important as homework. I have a job, one that puts food on our table, a roof over our heads, clothes on our backs and a few perks now and then. My job is important. Without it we would be living on the street.
My daughter spends 35 hours a week in school, plus another about 5 in transit each way. That’s a 40 hour week for her. She’s in second grade.
I did not “have more kids than I can handle” nor am I too “disorganized” to run my life. I will agree, though, that both my daughter and I are “too tired” to do homework and I’m “too tired” to do your job because I’ve been doing MY job all day. Silly me, keeping us from living in a box…I’m sure it has its advantages. Like leaving me more time to do your job for you.
I know some fabulous teachers. Wonderful, caring, warm, engaging, people who love their jobs and love helping children grow and learn. Their classrooms are rainbows of color and sounds. The children are happy and eager. That’s not a pipe dream, it’s reality. I’ve seen it. It’s funny that those teachers are, invariably, the ones who don’t assign homework. There’s no need. Why assign math worksheets when there are so many better, real world, fun ways to learn math? Look, 5 yellow flowers plus 3 blue ones makes 8 flowers. Now, let’s throw in 4 of these purple ones. How many do we have now?
The teachers who come here to post and complain that it’s not their “fault” or they’re not to “blame” are typically the ones who are, frankly, not cut out to be teachers. They don’t enjoy their jobs, they’re stuck in a rut, they have no respect for parents, and have a classroom full of bored children.
And, again, I HAVE A JOB. I work hard at it every day. I don’t have time to do homework or help with homework. I would rather take that time and spend it with my daughter who shouldn’t be asked to do homework, either, since she’s already spent a full day in school. soccerballetfootballdancelacrossehorsebackridingsunnydaybusyrunningerrands are important part of life. Family time is an important part of life. Why do teachers and schools not see that?
A couple of days ago, our family cat got sick and had to be taken to the animal hospital ER. We spent a good part of the night there with him. I wrote my daughter’s teacher a note explaining why her homework was not done. Apparently, it was not a good enough excuse because not only was she dinged for not having it done but the teacher actually told my daughter that it was MY “fault” (again, there’s that word) she didn’t get 100 on her spelling test since I didn’t feel it was important enough to practice her words with her.
Kids don’t need rewards and/or punishments for them to complete their “work”, they need work that’s fun and engaging and holds their interest. And, if the teacher can’t do that in the time allotted, then perhaps the teacher needs to reassess their time management, goals, and career choice.
And BTW, I have yet to have a teacher take me up on my offer to have them come do my job for a couple of hours a night when they’re finished with school.
The usual response, “I have a job.” My thoughts exactly.
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The only thing I have to say to Jen098 is..you have lost your way and all your perspective. Your idea of education is just sad.
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PsychMom,
I agree. Anyone who says, ‘The kids don’t know the material, are frustrated, tired, and my favorite “are bored”. You actually have to have a grasp of the basics before you get to be “bored”. No one wants to say it but many of the “bored” kids aren’t gifted. They are lazy. That’s right.’ but takes no responsibility for the fact that her students don’t know the material, are frustrated, tired and bored might want to reassess her career choice.
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PsychMom and zzzzz78759- both of you are very eloquent and your responses to Jen098 are well reasoned.
In my experience, the “lens” through which many educators view the world is relatively narrow and myopic.
I think they truly believe (the rather hysterical) dogma they adhere to. (All of the kids will be working at McDonald’s if they don’t pass their second grade spelling tests!)
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I have 2 boys-1 in 2nd grade and the other in 3rd. My 3rd grader had to read a school assigned book about how a kid his age went through life, and how he learned to like the whole world, that kind of thing. One night, he came up to me, and said, “Mom, I hate this book. It’s too boring. There are no fights, no adventures, no ANYTHING! I hate this. I’m not gonna read any longer.” I had a talk with his teacher about it, and she agreed with him. She said, “It’s probably the shallowest book I’ve read. But it’s the school board who decides which books the town schools read.” So I wrote to the town board. No reply. I called. Only an automated message. I attended a council meeting. When I was finished speaking my opinion, I was dismissed. The next day, I received a letter saying,
“Dear Joyce X,
We appreciate your opinion, and so we are truly sorry to say that though your son may not enjoy the book we have chosen and approved, it is the only book that meets our standards on violence, sexuality, and other issues we are afraid will influence and/or frighten the children in this town.
Sincerely,
Mr.whole town board.”
My son got a D for reading .
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Wow, Joyce. I can’t imagine what it must be like living in a place where people are so fearful. It’s like something out of a sci-fi movie. What does a D in reading mean when you’re in second or third grade? If your son reads a ton at home but doesn’t read another school/town endorsed book all year, will he still get a D?
It all seems so bizarre to me. If the “town” feels this way about books that small children read, do they make similar judgements about the movies that come to town, the books that adults read?
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To mom of four:
Just wondering which it is. School is your favorite time of year because your children are no longer around as much and you don’t have to talk to them during the day anymore. How did you describe it? Oh yes, BLISS!
Or is it the worst time of the year because you love to spend so much precious time with your children and teachers get in your way with all their busy work.
I am a parent and a teacher, so I really can see both points. There have been some assignments that I have not agreed with and told the teachers about it. But to consider all work as busy work just doesn’t sound right to me.
I though the questions you listed for thought after reading a book were interesting. Thinking of a different ending for a novel can be thought provoking. You need a serious understanding of the characters to know how they would react to that new ending. Mom of four, you just seem so bitter over something that you can’t see anything as worthwhile. That seems sad to me. Yes engaging your child physically is important, but isn’t engaging them mentally important also? Just like you expect teachers to engage their students by making things interesting (rightfully so). Shouldn’t you at least attempt to do the same for YOUR child. If you present ever assignment as dull, boring and meaningless busy work then you can’t be surprised when your children feel that way about all work.
My son recently had that same assignment about contemplating a different ending to a book he was reading. He had a good time changing the story around to what he thought should have happened. He insisted that I also read the book so I could give my own alternative ending and to see how I felt about his. I really felt like it was a wonderful experience for both of us.
Try to be positive. I tell my son that in my job I don’t always agree with what my boss wants me to do. I can voice my opinion about it, and sometimes that might change their opinion also. If not though I still need to do it, but try in some way to manipulate the assignment to better fit my own needs. School can be a learning experience for children beyond academics.
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lbs31609 says:
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Try to be positive. I tell my son that in my job I don’t always agree with what my boss wants me to do.
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I am so tired of this analogy. The teacher is not the child’s boss, and the student is not an employee. Education is supposed to benefit the child! If schoolwork doesn’t help the child learn, then what is the bloomin’ point?
Of course kids need both physical and mental activity. But when they’ve just spent 7 hours sitting on a bus and then sitting in classrooms doing schoolwork, it’s the physical activity they need most.
If the schools were doing their job, our kids would have their mental stimulation at school, and could come home and be active, or play a musical instrument, or knit, or hang out with their friends, or whatever they and their families feel is a good use of their time.
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You know, FedUp Mom..you are right. I guess I’ve gotten so used to hearing it that I don’t think it sounds weird anymore…but you’re right. We have to stop equating kid’s education with adult work. Not until kids are in their final years of high school do we have any justification to be talking about the world of work. I used to say that school was kid’s work, just like Montessori used to say that play was child’s work. But then I learned how today’s education system was originally developed to the specifications and requirements of corporate America and now I don’t think the word “work” should be assigned to education at all, except that it is the work of teachers.
Kids don’t need a 40 hour work week…they need less structured time.
Kids don’t need punch cards (that is…reading logs) to monitor their work.
Kids should not have to seek permission to go to the bathroom only on their breaks.
Kids should have adequate time to eat their lunch, play, dream, relax and do nothing everyday.
Kids should be free from school obligations when the school day is over.
Kids should be allowed to be kids…free from adult responsibility.
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Fed Up and PsychMom- Like avid Democrats and Republicans, I sometimes wonder if there is any point “debating” the teachers who write in. I think our “life philosophies” are so different it is difficult to find common ground.
For me, it comes down to choice. I really think education is to important to be in the hands of a government monopoly. More than no homework, I really wish school vouchers were a reality.
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Whoops- too important (Right?)
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I guess we will just agree that we will never agree.
I certainly DO NOT think every moment of a students time outside of school should be spent doing homework. However, I just can not understand (as a parent not a teacher) how a parent could object to any kind of thought provoking activity outside of school? Is it just that someone else assigned it that is the problem, or is it doing any kind of academic work at home is the problem? I am honestly saying that most assignments my son gets are interesting and I believe will in some way enhance his knowledge.
It seems like I am hearing, “Why can’t they get it all done in school.” There is ALWAYS more to learn. I do get all my basic lessons (the state’s curriculum) completed in class, but I want my students to be the best they can be. So I try to give home assignments that will help them achieve this and get them thinking and communicating with their family in some way.
Why not homeschool your children if you have such strong different opinions about how you would like them raised and educated? There is no problem in wanting your children to have no obligations, daydream and be creative all day, not have to ask permission for things like the bathroom or eat and drink whenever they want. Just give me a clear picture of how I can keep some kind of order in my class (to make sure students are progressing and safe) without having expectations and rules to follow. Your description does sound ideal if I had 1-5 students in my class, but just not achievable with 25-30.
Just teach your child yourself at home…really it’s that simple. I do my work as was stated but if your child refuses to do any work then it’s pointless. I am not saying that the work your child is doing needs to be miserable, I hope it is enjoyable just like I consider my work enjoyable. But it does take work to actively engage in conversations and process what your learning. PsychMom you think high school is the time to start teaching about adult work, I would agree with that. I guess what we disagree with is what adult work is. I just don’t see being taught responsibility and cooperation as adult work but a gradual process that takes a lifetime to learn. And, that waiting until high school to try and instill that seems too late.
I don’t think I am my students boss and I don’t tell my students that. I said that to MY son as a way of showing him I understand disagreeing with something you need to do. That even though I am not in school that I can relate to his feelings. You’re your child’s parent and I’m mine. I feel it’s my job as his parents to help prepare him for life, and I think a huge life lesson is being able to work together with other and when needed how to compromise. Yes, if you extremely disagree with something then you need to stand up for what you believe. However not everything in life needs to be a fight. I know many on this board will disagree with that and think you should always fight about everything you think is unacceptable, but it just sounds like a difficult and aggravating life.
This sure has been an interesting conversation. I wish all the parents that have different P.O.V then mine good luck. Obviously we are writing on this board because we really hope what values we teach our children (and students) are the best choices. I’m sure everyone has their child’s best interest at heart…. even if I disagree with it.
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lbs3169 says:
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Yes, if you extremely disagree with something then you need to stand up for what you believe. However not everything in life needs to be a fight. I know many on this board will disagree with that and think you should always fight about everything you think is unacceptable, but it just sounds like a difficult and aggravating life.
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I personally hate fighting. That’s why I took my daughter out of the public schools and am now sending her to Quaker schools. We’ve had a few problems, but they were resolved peacefully and to my satisfaction, and in general it’s been much smoother going. I agree that it is a difficult and aggravating life to have to fight all the time.
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However, I just can not understand (as a parent not a teacher) how a parent could object to any kind of thought provoking activity outside of school? … I am honestly saying that most assignments my son gets are interesting and I believe will in some way enhance his knowledge.
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All I can say is your experience of homework has been the exact opposite of mine. I would estimate that at least 90% of the homework my daughter received at the public school was tedious, pointless, and not suited to her abilities. Homework was not a “thought provoking activity” for my daughter. It was an irritating chore that she had to be nagged to do, until I transformed into FedUpMom (there was a phone booth involved.)
I’m okay with teaching my child to compromise, but what I see in school is usually not a compromise. It’s usually forcing the child to do whatever they were told to by the teacher, no matter how inappropriate. Nobody really listens to the child’s point of view. That’s not teaching compromise — it’s teaching passivity.
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lbs3169 said
—-Is it just that someone else assigned it that is the problem, or is it doing any kind of academic work at home is the problem?——————-
It’s the latter. Why should a child who has been attentive and engaged for 6 hours have to do more work at home? Especially the very young ones….who are under 13. For the older children, why do they have to do two and three hours more? Why?
———-There is no problem in wanting your children to have no obligations, daydream and be creative all day, not have to ask permission for things like the bathroom or eat and drink whenever they want. ——– I never said that they shouldn’t have obligations, rules of conduct and responsibilities, but I claim the responsibility for teaching those things. I don’t know why you feel that it’s you and you alone who make the difference in these areas. As for asking permission to eat, drink and go to the bathroom..to me that’s a human dignity and respect issue. If we don’t treat children humanely, how can we expect them to behave as such? Do you like having to ask permission to go to the bathroom?
——-I just don’t see being taught responsibility and cooperation as adult work but a gradual process that takes a lifetime to learn. And, that waiting until high school to try and instill that seems too late.——-
Biological maturation doesn’t happen because we teach children things. It happens with time and the opportunities for good food, rest, fresh air and a stimulating environment. I have no data to back this up but I’m almost willing to bet that you CAN”T teach somebody a sense of responsibility. They have to experience the inner sense of wanting to do the right thing..not just learn to avoid punishment by doing the right (demanded) thing. If a child gets a reprimand because they forgot their homework, what are they learning? I think they are learning: Please the teacher, do what she/he says so I don’t get in trouble. How is that responsible behaviour?
My perspective is…when a child is old enough and has been involved in environments that model responsible behaviour by adults, that show respect for all members of the group, the child will behave according to these principles as well.
My child at age 8, can barely figure out time and the days of the week. But she’s supposed to know that math homework goes home on Thursday and is due on Tuesday…Reading log is due on Tuesday, spelling is Friday. Wednesday is gym. ETC ETC….and that’s only half of it. Maybe some kids can think that far ahead, but I’ll bet dollars to donuts that other kids are no different from mine, but they have mothers and fathers who know the schedule and THEY make sure all the work gets done when it’s supposed to. It’s the parents’ organizational skills at work….this teaches nothing and drives this mother nuts. Why not wait until enough brain cells are firing together in my kid’s head that she has some concept of the school week having 5 days!!!!!
And on the responsibility front: I’m teaching her how to be responsible in many ways….that are just as relevant if not more relevant than a responsibility for homework. Her success in life does not hinge on her pleasing her teachers…
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Ibs3169- Again, PsychMom and FedUp Mom echoed my thoughts very well. When you state “”There is ALWAYS more to learn”…. of course there is. I think that’s the point. Becoming a life long learner (or seeker) or voracious reader doesn’t have to happen in grades 1-5. Moreover, outside of the school day, why do you feel the need to dictate “more learning.”
I love to read but it wasn’t forced upon me in elementary school. My eight year old daughter enjoys reading but I realize that her enjoyment can be incremental. If she enjoys reading now but doesn’t become a voracious reader until middle school or high school; I”m okay with that.
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Have you ever tried talking to the teachers to come up with a compromise? I am a fourth grade teacher who does give homework, but not so much homework it should leave the child and parent frustrated. I do believe homework teaches responsibility and is another way for a teacher to assess if the students are understanding what was taught in school. If a parent told me that the homework I am giving was too time consuming I would work with that parent.
You may be surprised at how many parents say to teachers that they are not giving enough homework. Really you are damned if you do and damned if you don’t!
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Dena says:
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Have you ever tried talking to the teachers to come up with a compromise?
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Good heavens, of course we talk to the teachers. I talk to my daughter’s teachers all the time (and communicate by email, too.)
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You may be surprised at how many parents say to teachers that they are not giving enough homework. Really you are damned if you do and damned if you don’t!
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Dena, if you have parents asking for more homework, give them more homework. If you have parents saying they don’t want their kid doing the homework, you should respect that too. Let the parents decide what they want to do in their own home with their own child.
One of the great mysteries of homework is why teachers seem to feel it’s vitally important for every child in the class to do the exact same work at home. Do you think every child in the class should do the exact same work at school? I hope not. If you’re teaching in a public school, your class probably contains all kinds of kids, from learning disabled to gifted. There’s no way they should all be doing the exact same task. This is how the above-average kids get cheated out of an education.
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I do believe homework teaches responsibility and is another way for a teacher to assess if the students are understanding what was taught in school.
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Dena, please read The Case Against Homework and The Homework Myth. Homework doesn’t teach responsibility, it teaches compliance and passivity. In 4th grade, you’re not even teaching the kids how to be compliant and passive — you’re teaching the mothers.
And homework is a terrible way to assess what your students are understanding. You don’t know who did the homework the child turns in. It might have been done by a parent or older sibling, or the child might have copied it from another child on the school bus.
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I am 20, in college and trying to be a nurse. I am a military child so I have been to multiple schools, sometimes in the middle of the year. Sadly, because of these changes I have flat out flunked several classes in high school, not a pretty record for an aspiring collegiate. The different styles of teaching as well as the shifts in the difficultly and homework load in the different schools was astounding, sometimes good and sometimes to the point where I was relearning a lot of the same things repeatedly over again and trying not to rip my hair out by the roots in pure frustration.
I was bored, and saw no point in doing the homework for something I already knew better than the other students. Further infuriating my teachers was the fact that while I did not do the assigned homework I continued to pass every single test thrown at me with flying colors, both in class and state mandated.
My nephew is now six, and in the first grade, but in kindergarten he was getting assigned homework everynight. On one disatrous evening the teacher sent home two word search puzzles, he couldn’t remained focused enough, or know how to spell enough of the words to get very far. The poor boy ended up getting in trouble and sent to bed. His mom went to talk to the teacher about it the next day only to find out that while the work was placed in the homework folder, it was only something for the children to do for fun and was not required. Wouldn’t a note have been appropriate, and according to the “rule of thumb” was it even appropriate for kindergarteners to get homework in the first grade?
I also am an avid book worm, but I do not under any circumstances, like being dictated to what I should read. I love Romeo and Juliet, and A Prayer for Owen Meany, but I can’t stant Hamlet or MacBeth, so how is it fair to me for the school bored or the teacher to force me to read something I do not enjoy? Further more, why do I have to write a twenty page reading log, and an analytical paper when I was practically crying in frustration trying to drag myself through something I found so excruciating?
And when was the last time the actual student got to write a paper over a topic they themselves picked? Yes, there are instances, but the topics are often monitered by the instructor, for instance, my English Composition class was given a chance to tell the teacher what we may be interested in writing about. We each had ideas, but we finally narrowed it down to the differences in the school systems and should there be more of a nation-wide policy, what the teacher gave us? “What is the ideal homework policy?” It is similar in the fact that it deals with school, but was nothing close to what we had expressed wanting to write about.
And my last point is simply the sheer number of all-nighters I have pulled trying to complete assignments. When a math teacher assigns a section of problems and says it should only take thirty minutes, what are they basing that time frame on? I don’t know how many of my friends go to school, then a sport or job, come home and stay up until two in the morning doing all the homework assigned for the night only to wake up at six the next morning to be to school on time. How does sleep deprivation equate to a more productive student? If we appear bored or tired in class it is probably beacuse we were up till ungodly hours the night before doing some psychotic assignment that has mild relevance to what we learned in the first place!
So if you ask me if I think homework is doing any good I will say that at the rate it is given now it is simply a form of mild torture. How many adults have to bring their work home with them? What did I just spend a large chunck of my waking day sitting in a classroom for if you are just going to make me have school at home to, and if that is the case, can I just skip and send you the assignments via fax or something?
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My child is in grade 3… Every Monday, there are two Special Readers in class and they are to read a book to their classmates, having rehearsed at home, and then take questions (I think so anyway…, I haven’t read the handout from the teachers since mid Sept….fuzzy memory). The reading assignees are usually listed on the monthly calendars but today is the first Monday in November and the parents have not been given a new calendar yet. So it was a complete surprise to learn, last night at 8PM, that my darling daughter was to be a Special Reader today.
My immediate reaction was…oh well, maybe you can be ready by Wednesday. But intrepid reader went to her room, found a book, read it out loud in her room. Once. Then she came out and announced her choice, told me I was going to be her audience and then make 3 (positive)comments, ask 2 questions and make one suggestion. She read her book…well below her reading capability level. It took about 5 minutes….she told me nobody would ask the kind of questions I asked (too hard). There. Done.
Was that what the teacher intended? I don’t know.
Did my daughter do what she was supposed to do? Dunno.
Did my daughter learn anything from that? I don’t know.
Did I learn anything from that? I learned that random thoughts pop into my daughter’s head as she “starts” to plan ahead in her life. I learned that she’ll be one of those kids finishing assignments in the car in the morning, because she’s already done that in Grade 3.
I learned that it’s the right strategy to not fuss about homework. It’s not my job.
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PsychMom — hmm … you’ve got one of those kids I’m always hearing about from other people: organized, wants to do what the teacher said (even at home!), will do the homework on her own with no prompting from Mom.
I wasn’t that kid as a child and now I have two kids who aren’t that kid either. I honestly find it difficult to understand this personality type.
If you’ve worked out a strategy that you and your child are happy with, that’s great. I guess my question would be, how long will you be satisfied with your daughter doing work that’s below her actual ability? I have the same question re: my own daughter, by the way.
The other problem for those “good student” types is that they can be so invested in making the teacher happy that they fail to develop their own point of view. Also, they’re the ones who can really suffer from overwork. It sounds like so far your school isn’t overloading the kids, which is fortunate.
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“What did I just spend a large chunck of my waking day sitting in a classroom for if you are just going to make me have school at home to, and if that is the case, can I just skip and send you the assignments via fax or something?”
Last year I joked wryly that my daughter had so much homework, she no longer had time to actually attend school. Although as you all know, it was and still is no joke.
There are Fridays where my daughter comes home with so much weekend homework, I look at my husband and say, should we keep her home on Monday so she can get this done? Like the above 20 year old nursing student, I too have wondered whether we should just keep her at home and do the assignments in tandem. Because then she’d actually have time to do them.
Where on earth do these teachers think the homework time comes from? I know lengthening the school day is not a popular option here. And I agree. I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again. In fact, I ought to fish out that essay I wrote here on the subject.
I’ll reprise it in a nutshell. I want to see school sit down with us parents. I want school to tell us exactly what they feel they need to accomplish in a given year. Then they ask our opinion and input. After all, it’s our children. Why are we silenced by their education? Then we work together as a team because that is the only partnership tI will accept.
I want schools to eliminate all the fluff and time wasters. As a team, we sit down together. No matter how hard you work children, it will never be possible to learn everything. Iive practically next door to a large regional library. Reading is my passion. If I pledged to give myself a year to read every single book in that library, as much as I love to read, it’s not possible in the short time frame given? The analogy can be applied to high school right now because our education is a mile long and an inch deep.
Right now we have high achieving high schoolers getting on average, five hour sleep. This CANNOT go on any longer, this does not work. It’s a no-brainer, right? Obviously not to everyone, certainly not to school officials who create the untenable environment in the first place.
Determine what you need to get done. And then if more time is needed, lengthen the school day and get it done AT SCHOOL. No homework sent home. The only high school homework that should ever be done at home is the occasional longer form in depth assignment and some group work that can’t be done at school. But what I see my daughter mostly bringing home are several sets of math problems, work sheets, essays, reports, papers. and tons of textual and article reading. All this can be done at school.
I know a longer day is not popular here. Trust me, under current conditions, I don’t advocate for it either because what guarantee is there that if they’ve wasted seven and a half hours of my daughter’s day, that they wouldn’t waste two more? But let’s not fool ourselves. The day is already lengthened, with unpaid involuntary labor. Ask my daughter. She’s MUCH rather have a longer school day where it all gets done there so that she comes to a free evening.
Yes, a longer school day is not the answer right now. The system is broken and the longer day won’t fix it. But in my perfect world, with fabulous dedicated teachers for whom the student is the first priority, this could work. Right now I see massive classroom time wasted and all the difficult stuff sent home.
To its credit, my daughter’s school does engage the kids in conversation and discussion. I love that. Reverse it. Use the daytime when the children are still alert, to do the essays and reports. Have the teacher walk around and help the kids. As said many times, my daughter is in a gifted program. These kids are motivated and teachers have almost no classroom management issues. Where these kids really need help is in sequencing, planning, mapping, breaking down assignments into manageable chunks and constructing a well crafted elegant essay.
So do that. Walk around, help the kids, brainstorm ideas. It can be engrossing, fun, captivating. You can weave in discussions and team work. But do the hard stuff at school. And then at the end of the day, do what you usually do at the beginning. The discussion, group analysis. Do the less taxing stuff at the end of the day. And eliminate what you don’t need. Every teacher should ask herself every day, will this extra essay cause my student to lose much needed sleep? If the answer is yes, toss it. It’s not worth it. An essay begun at midnight is not the student’s best work. It’s not worth the price. It’s not going to turn them into a better writer, only a worse one.
I have a dream of starting a high school. I have a feeling it’s going to happen. I do not want my students staggering into school on five hours sleep. Detractors will mock me, say it can’t be done. I don’t want my students tired and depressed. That they did all the work to please me and arrive exhausted and disengaged through the day is not good enough for me. I don’t want that.
I want to tell my parents. I want your kids to get ALL the sleep their bodies need and I will help you to make that happen. When they come to school, though, be prepared to work hard. Really hard. Not in a sweatshop grinding grim resolve kind of way, but in an engrossing, engaging magical “flow” state.
Think it can’t be done? My daughter attends an academic program every summer (she’s “graduated” from it now) and this is how they run the day. The start with a group of highly motivated eager kids who want to be there. They do five hours of classroom, two hours of supervised study hall and it gets done!
I’m a realist. I know school is not a summer program. But I can take many of these precepts, these tenets, and apply to a daily program. We still need gifted programs. But not like the ones we have now!
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Hi FedUp Mom…
Mmmmm….I don’t know about the organized part…but yes, she’ll do whatever the teacher tells her to do, if she remembers. She has even come home and told me what the teacher told her I was “supposed” to do, which, you can imagine went over…..oh sooooo well.
The teachers are expecting the parent prompts…and that’s where I’m not figuring into the equation quite as well as I should. 🙂
I don’t read the website, I don’t organize my kid’s homework assignments and due dates….but somehow it’s all getting done. I have asked her if she gets held in at recess…she says no, that only happens under certain circumstances which I can’t recall at the moment. And yes, it’s a reasonable school. But I would be happiest if they abandoned all homework for kids under Grade 7.
I’m struggling with the obedience factor…it’ll be a topic of discussion this week in parent-teacher conference.
I see obedience as spirit killing….and it gets replaced with anxiety and obsessions. I know..it happened to me. But getting those strokes and good girl labels are so reinforcing when you are 8…and addictive.
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My above post contained some typos. Oh, boy, how am I going to run a school if I can’t write? :). I can actually but my eyes are hurting this morning and when we type the message, the print is very light. I was in a rush and didn’t catch everything. I’m just going to resubmit the entire thing, corrected version! Please read this and not the one above, but if you are reading lineally, then obviously you’ve already read it. I’ve added here, this one’s better. Can’t guarantee you won’t catch some more mistakes ;).
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“What did I just spend a large chunck of my waking day sitting in a classroom for if you are just going to make me have school at home to, and if that is the case, can I just skip and send you the assignments via fax or something?”
Last year I joked wryly that my daughter had so much homework, she no longer had time to actually attend school. Although as you all know, it was and still is no joke.
There are Fridays where my daughter comes home with so much weekend homework, I look at my husband and ask, should we keep her home on Monday so she can get this done? Like the above 20 year old nursing student, I too have wondered whether we should just keep her at home and have her do the assignments in tandem. Because then she’d actually have time to do them! Stay home, check Blackboard for assignments, do them, and email them in or drop them off.
Where on earth do these teachers think the homework time comes from? I know lengthening the school day is not a popular option here. And I agree. I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again. In fact, I ought to fish out that essay I wrote here on the subject.
I’ll reprise it in a nutshell. I want to see school sit down with us parents. I want school to tell us exactly what they feel they need to accomplish in a given year. Then they ask our opinion and input. After all, it’s our children. Why are we silenced by their education? Then we work together as a team because that is the only partnership I will accept.
I want schools to eliminate all the fluff and time wasters. As a team, we sit down together. No matter how hard you work children, it will never be possible to learn everything. I Iive practically next door to a large gorgeous regional library. Reading is my passion and I could spend all day in that place, if I didn’t have a life with responsibilities. If I pledged to give myself a year to read every single book in that library, as much as I love to read, it is simply not possible in the short time frame given. The analogy can be applied to high schools right now because our education is a mile long and an inch deep.
Right now we have high achieving high schoolers getting on average, five hour sleep. This CANNOT go on any longer, this does not work. It’s a no-brainer, right? Obviously not to everyone, certainly not to school officials and yes, teachers, who create the untenable environment in the first place.
Determine what you need to get done. And then if more time is needed, lengthen the school day and get it done AT SCHOOL. No homework sent home. The only high school homework that should ever be done at home is the occasional longer form in depth assignment and some group work that can’t be done at school. But what I see my daughter mostly bringing home are several sets of math problems, work sheets, essays, reports, papers, the occasional poster,. and tons of textual and article reading. All this can be done at school. I like the group work and when bright kids are working together on some engaging problem solving assignment, I like that and understand why it would require time outside of school. But daily slog? That can be done at school. And while we’re at it, can we eliminate tedious slog as much as possible? How on earth does this benefit students?
I know a longer day is not popular here. Trust me, under current conditions, I don’t advocate for it either because what guarantee is there that if they’ve wasted seven and a half hours of my daughter’s day, they wouldn’t waste two more? But let’s not fool ourselves. The day is already lengthened, with unpaid involuntary labor. Ask my daughter. She’d MUCH rather get a longer school day where it all gets done there so that she comes home to a free evening.
Yes, a longer school day is not the answer right now. The system is broken and the longer day won’t fix it. But in my perfect world, with fabulous dedicated teachers for whom the student is the first priority, this could work. Understand that this dream school is a private one where I don’ t have to answer to the governor. Right now I see massive classroom time wasted and all the difficult stuff sent home.
To its credit, my daughter’s school does engage the kids in conversation and discussion. I love that. Reverse it. Use the daytime when the children are still alert, to do the essays and reports. Have the teacher walk around and help the kids. As said many times, my daughter is in a gifted program. These kids are motivated and teachers have almost no classroom management issues. Where these kids really need help is in sequencing, planning, mapping, breaking down assignments into manageable chunks and constructing a well crafted elegant essay.
And yes, they need an education, not just more and more work. It should be about quality, not merely quantity. A more rigorous program does not have to mean more homework. These kids need to connect with teachers. They need to be seen not merely by what they can produce but as who they are. As people, as human beings. With all the wants, strengths and insecurities that go along with it.
So do that. Walk around, help the kids, brainstorm ideas. It can be engrossing, fun, captivating. You can weave in discussions and team work. But do the hard stuff at school. And then at the end of the day, do what you usually do at the beginning. The discussion, group analysis. Do the less taxing stuff at the end of the day.
And eliminate what you don’t need. I’m still wondering why my daughter takes so many tests and quizzes every week. Yea, yea, I know, it’s for the gradebook. But let’s ask ourselves, does it promote learning? Does it have high educational value? Is the time expended worth the gain? I have thought this through long and hard and I’m firmly convinced the answer is no. On every count.
Every teacher should ask herself every day, will this extra essay cause my student to lose much needed sleep? If the answer is yes, toss it. It’s not worth it. An essay begun at midnight is not the student’s best work. It’s not worth the price. It’s not going to turn the student into a better writer, only a resentful one.
I have a dream of starting a high school. I have a feeling it’s going to happen. I do not want my students staggering into school on five hours sleep. Detractors will mock me, say it can’t be done. I don’t want my students tired and depressed. That they did all the work to please me and arrive exhausted and disengaged is not good enough for me. And it should not be good enough for any teacher or administrator who deals with high schoolers. It should not be good enough. If your students are up half the night, you should be worried. Not relieved.
I want to tell my parents this. I want your children to get ALL the sleep their bodies need and I will help you to make that happen. When they come to school, though, be prepared to work hard. Really hard. Not in a sweatshop grinding grim resolve kind of way, but in an engrossing, engaging magical “flow” state.
Think it can’t be done? My daughter attends an academic program every summer (she’s “graduated” from it now) and this is how they run the day. They start with a group of highly motivated eager kids who want to be there. They do five hours of classroom, breaks in the middle, dinner, activities, two hours of supervised study hall, social time, and lights out at 10:30 with a 9am start time. It gets done!
I’m a realist. I know school is not a summer program. But I can take many of these precepts, these tenets, and apply them to a daily program. We still need gifted programs. But not like the ones we have now!
For those parents who don’t want this, that’s what public school is for. I am looking for that rare student who loves to learn, inhales information and material, does not work for a grade, thinks outside the box, works better in depth than a little bit of a lot and works better in space than time. Children like this are really suffering and outside of homeschooling, there is no place for them. I’d like to create that place.
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I re-read FeUpMom’s comment and she asked….
“I guess my question would be, how long will you be satisfied with your daughter doing work that’s below her actual ability?”
It’s dicey, because the school puts a big emphasis on public speaking and presentations by the kids, and this requires a lot of self confidence. I think, even as an adult, you want to speak about something you’re confortable with if you have to present to an audience, so I want her to choose for her comfort level. If I was going to read in public I wouldn’t want to be stumbling over words either.
For the most part I rely on maturation to do its work. I really believe she will challenge herself naturally rather than have to be forced to do more challenging work. Boredom is a big factor in learning…..it drives us forward as long as the more challenging stuff is available, and certainly at our school, challenge is available if you seek it. I think back to milestones she’s mastered and passed…at every step she was ready to make the next leap. If I just wait…it’ll happen. If I blink, I’ll miss it sometimes.
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To HomeworkBlues
My child will need high school in about 6 or 7 years. depending on what you define highschool as. We will need to enrol in your school…I’ll get started on the immigration paperwork now.
Seriously though, that’s the kind of high schooling that would nuture a life-long learner. It would demand presence by the children attending, full presence…not blearly eyed, malnourished presense. And it would be worth every cent invested by parents.
Where do I sign up?
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PsychMom, THANKS for the endorsement. So Sara Bennett, what do you think of my school? I have been dreaming about this for years. You know, there are some amazing innovative private schools out there that exist because someone had a vision. And it took a horrible experience to lead them down that epiphanous path..
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Reading this kind of stuff drives me crazy! To the person up at 3:17 am., with the daughter with the research paper, I hope that’s not me Friday morning, when my own daughter’s research paper is due. She’s already frustrated, because she’s gotten points marked off because her name was on the wrong line on her bibliography. I know another girl (different school) who got an F on her English paper and the majority of the points off were not on content, but on how the computer didn’t put the page numbers in the right spot and her name and class period were reversed. Now, I’m a former copy editor, so details DO matter to me. But mostly what these experiences serve to do is suck all the joy out of learning out of these kids. Then you take a look at a progressive public school, such as the one outlined in a great book called “Lives of Passion, School of Hope,” (by Rick Posner) and you see how a school can transform lives and not deaden them. If nothing else, the book shows parents what we should demand of our schools, and can show young educators what they can do, and how to discover (or rediscover) the joy of teaching. It angers me that these kids have so much, and my kids have gotten so little, in terms of passion and joy of learning.
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Liz, I read your insightful comments on free range kids. Thank you.
I have to stop. I cannot argue with dar anymore. I’m drained. It’s scary because dar could be your child’s teacher.
Thanks for your validation.
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After reading many comments I can not restrain myself any more I have to tell MY story. I am thirteen, I live in Canada, i’m gifted, I have two learning disorders (one social, one concentration,) I found this blog after searching on Google for “reading log help”, my teacher has assigned reading for 3 hours a week (easy for me, I love to read,) but has also assigned reading logs, which we have to write about the book and how we can connect with it. This is where it is difficult for me, my mind doesn’t work in words (I can’t format, I struggle to put my ideas on paper) my mind works in metaphors and symbols, when I first started the reading log I did great, It was like a spark went off in my head and I could write, but now the spark isn’t there and its like i’m a train thats been de-railed and can’t get back on track, The spark is going of right now in my head I know what i’m writing and i’m focusesed on it, but I can’t do it for the reading log. When I go to school tommorow I will ask my teacher if instead of writing about my book I could discuss my book with her (like what lots of the comments on this blog say with the reading confrences) I also have math homework, I am gifted, when I learn something I master it and if I don’t know enough about it I do independant learning (I learn something new off of Wikipedia each day, I have a need to independently learn) but with math we get tons of homework about stuff I already have mastered and I would work on it but the questions are tedious and repetitive something are just not appropriate (why would I care is Stacy lost seventeen marbles) and to better explain the inappropriateness of the questions, I had a problem solver that wanted me to put a number in a calculator and find out how the number was related to the beach, I turned the calculator upside down and it said SHELLS! SHELLS! i’m thirteen, i’m gifted, why am I wasting my time on this stupid question. The school and the government treat me like i’m something less of a person, they think there “helping” me with my social disorder, but I don’t need help with that, only recently has it been that the school recognized me as needing help but its to late I am teaching myself the appropriateness of what to say and what certain emotions mean. I really think homework is useless I get good grades and I never study for a test, and most of the time homework is stuff that we did not finish in class, I spend seven hours a day 5 days a week at school and they have work that they couldn’t get to, if it’s a problem cut art class out do I really need to learn how to finger paint, I know many kids like art and thats could but it doesn’t have to be a subject, if the kids like it they will want to learn more and now that information is at our fingertips (thank god for computers) we can learn more. Thank you for reading! Sorry about the formatting and confusion.
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I have just read Liz’s comment and I wish schools were like that but my mom has fought for 17 years to get the schools to do the simplest of tasks and she can’t do it any more, she has a business, two kids with disabilities, schedules to organize, and a household to run. Being a parent must be very hard but why is it that simple tasks are so hard for schools to do, for governments to realize.
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‘We do not choose who we will become, are environment does, but we can choose are environment.”
– Steven Y.
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Steve, read some of this guy’s stuff about homework Alfiekohn.com
Keep educating yourself and take a stand.
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Alfiekohn.org
Articles
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HomeworkBlues if that school becomes real I want to go to it, hope it becomes real fast because I start high school in 2010. You seem to know exactly what I want from a school, A place where your encouraged to do what interests you, a place where you can actually learn something new, a place where you have as fun working with a student that is the same intellectual level as you. Please make this school real it could benefit all who wish to enjoy there childhood because you only get it once and it should be a productive but happy time!
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Thank you Fed Up Dad And Teacher this Alfie Kohn guy seems very interesting, and I will take a stand. Education is key to a successful life.
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If governments and schools want to turn out successful students that can make advancements in society then they need to change schools so that students are treated individually, if everybody is unique and individual then everybody needs a custom learning plan. It may cost lots of money to get every child a custom learning plan that evolves as the child grows but it will pay off there will be successful students that will change the world but for that to happen the schools have to change.
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I asked my teacher if I could discuss my connections rather then write them and she said that it was a good idea and that she was going to start putting us in groups to discuss our books, she also told me that instead of writing the log I could just use a microphone and record my log on Audacity (if you haven’t read my other posts, I have trouble putting my thoughts on paper and that its easier for me to just speak my thoughts and ideas.) Thank you! to the creators of this website and all the people commenting I would be struggling to write my log if it wasn’t for you!
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Hello all.
I’ve been reading everyone’s comments for the last 45 minutes now and I am amazed at how this homework topic has some people so fired up. Mind you, I’ve listened to arguments on both sides, but I, personally, am torn. Here’s why…
I am a 2nd grade teacher in an urban city where I have many below-level children in my classroom. This is my 2nd year teaching.
I struggle with the notion of not giving ever giving homework. Sure, it would probably benefit me and free up some time in my own life so I don’t have to check it, but I don’t know.
Here’s the deal…There are so many children in my classroom that are 2 years below reading level and I have been told by my administrators that homework, specifically READING, must be assigned every night. Whether its being read to them or if they are reading themselves I am supposed to send home a reading log for the week. Now there is something to be said about how much children need to practice reading to become fluent readers. I mean if my 2nd graders cannot read and write at a 3rd grade level by next year they will not even be able to read the directions on the state tests. With that said, how can I not push them to read at home. Many of my students do not even have books at home, so I provide the books for them. I am really the only vehicle that drives them to become educated many parents in our areas do not pick up their children until 7pm and so the work gets done in an afterschool program of sorts. I, personally as a teacher, do not give homework that should take any more than 30 minutes. I mean my students are only 7 or 8.
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Oh to make my previous entry a little clearer. I have yet to implement the “Reading Log.” I have not done it yet. My students will pick out a book of their choosing to do this for the first few weeks. Your thoughts please…
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Dear Mrs. M,
I am thrilled to see you are grappling with these issues and really trying to figure out what will help your students learn how to read better. While I don’t think assigning a reading log will help, I do believe that creating a culture of reading in your classroom will go a long way towards getting your students excited about reading. And letting them take home books of their choosing to read in the evening or over the weekend is critical, especially if your students don’t have books in their homes. Are you familiar with Nancie Atwell’s, Reading in the Middle, or Donalyn Miller, who has a blog and a book of the same name, The Book Whisperer? While both those authors/teachers work with middle school students, their approaches can work just as well with early or non-readers.
I am not a teacher by training, but I have taught in a variety of settings, most recently in an alternative school with plenty of non-readers. Slowly, over the course of the year (I was in the school for 3 hours a week), I was able to encourage the students to read, just by setting aside a time and place for them to read in school, suggesting books, reading aloud to them (sometimes one on one), and having them read to or with me as well. I would always start off our sessions by having one or two students talk about the books they were reading (it was always voluntary). As the students talked about “their” books, other kids would then want to read them as well. And, even though I set aside some of my class time for writing, I often couldn’t get the students to write anything. So I started a newsletter and after the first issue came out, the students who hadn’t written anything were sorry not to have participated and contributed from then on. Those who couldn’t write would draw or write a few words or dictate to me and, with each issue, there was more and more writing.
But best of all, as the year progressed, I could see the students becoming readers. They were eager to share what they were reading and wanted to tell me all the books they had read during the previous week.
The students at this school were incredibly diverse and came from a mix of socio-economic backgrounds. My students were ages 5-13; some were strong readers, some couldn’t read at all. At the end of the year, all of the students had made incredible progress but, most important, all were readers in the best sense of the word.
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this is so stupied
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Such animosity. Boys and girls, it’s quite simple. If your child’s teacher assigns things you disagree with, than use it as a chance to discuss the issue with your child. Come to a decision and follow through. Do this for everything in life. Help your child make choices that fit your values and aspirations in life. And yes, you can explain this even to a kindergarten. You could say, well honey, this work isn’t something you and I are going to spend time on this evening. Your teacher assigned this work to her students because he/she believes it will help your learning. Your learning is so important and your teacher is doing what he/she thinks is best for all her students. In our family, we do what’s best for us and right now what is best is to spend time doing —-, not this homework. I will make sure your teacher understands. You do not need to worry about it.” If your child’s teacher does anything other adjust the grade, you have the right to complain to his or her boss and make sure it never happens again. Take advantage of this freedom.
If however you are bemoaning the fact that the grade adjustment isn’t fair either, than you need to think about whether you really care about your child’s LEARNING or about your child’s GRADES. Because, as so many have pointed out, they are different entities.
Consider this example:
Homework A is assigned: parent and child frustrated/don’t agree with busy work/practice/whatever.
Dicussion ensues.
Parent and child choose not to do it.
Result: grade is affected (because society has chosen for schools to evaluate both learning and work ethic and assign a letter to represent it. If you disagree with it, fight to change it, accept it and assign your own personal value to it, or cry and bemoan your horrid circumstances for living in a society with both great and poor rules and regulations.)
Grade card comes home: parent and child frustrated assign blame to others OR parent and child realize why grades are what they are (because of choices made together), they discuss if these letters truly represent child’s REAL learning and whether or not they care enough about these letters to:
A: complete future homework assignments or
B: continue choosing which assignments matter to their family values and life style and life aspirations and continue to self-evaluate if true learning is still occurring despite letters on grade card.
Continue above throughout education:
If parent and child are frustrated about the limitations society (colleges and/or employers) have set for students with poor grade cards than do something about it, accept it, or choose a different route in life. Parent and child will benefit from their decisions (improved family life, spiritual life, leisure time, etc.) and suffer the other (perhaps not as many options for careers, societal views/scrutiny, keeping up with the Jones’, etc.) However, this should balance out according to what is important to you anyway.
If parent and child ultimately decide that working on things they believe are not really important to them, but the advantages given by society are worth the inconvenience, they will benefit as such.See above in reverse!
Really, in a nutshell, your child’s education is up to you as a parent. The American education system is set up to present content and processes to students. For the most part, teachers do their best to present the material in an appealing way to students that is the most effective while still dealing with the constraints set upon them by the society (work force) in which they choose to work.
For the most part, parents are doing their best to raise children in the most appealing and effective way while still meeting with the constraints set upon them by the society where they choose to live.
We must remember we have choices. We are not living in an ideal society and the hardships we and our children/students face may or may not be our faults or any ONE person, parent or teacher’s fault. It is what it is and you must choose how to deal with it and how to help your child deal. So you may choose to accept it in a way that best suits you and your family’s value system or you may choose to fight and change the system. But let’s all stop the name calling and blaming. There are so many wonderful, dedicated teachers out there who just want what is best for children and many who are turds who need to step down from teaching. There are also many parents who forget that their child is ultimately their responsibility to educate and choosing the American public education system is just one way parents choose to do so. Homeschooling, private schools, moving to other countries, expanding at home on public school curriculums are other choices often made by parents. You choose your child’s doctor, you choose your auto mechanic, you choose your spouse, YOU CHOOSE the way to educate your child.
So make your choice and accept the consequences.
I assign homework and reading logs. It motivates SOME to get extra practice either for learning’s sake, the sake of their grades, outside pressures, or for fun. Some parents/students choose not to do it. Sometimes the choice affects their grades, sometimes not.
Some parents/students cry about their grades and raise holy —- because they don’t like the grades. Silliness.
If they care about their child’s GRADES, then they will adjust their value system to include all of the hard work, time, effort, and occassional frustrations and baloney that goes along with earning them. If they care about their child’s LEARNING, then they will take and leave homework, school work, assignments, etc. and use just what suits their family’s value system and ideas of valuable learning. Parents will have to accept the outcome if this is their choice. I have met parents that choose this route and there are mixed results. So be it. No one is forcing you or children to do homework or school work for that matter. Never the less we live in a society with rules and you may move away from this society, accept and deal, or fight to change our education system. Meanwhile, everyone, teachers and parents, quit ur bellyaching. Education in this nation is still a choice, just as parenting and choosing your career is still a choice. If you don’t like it, homeschool, change it, or deal with it.
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Dear Teacher Mom,
Hear, hear!
–Sara
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@teachermom and Sara, I don’t really agree here because this is a Hobson’s choice. Sure, we have the freedom to not do homework, but if the cost of choosing that is always a 0 then we don’t really have a choice, do we?
A better solution (and one that I have seen teachers implement) is to simply not count the assignment if we chose not to do it and can provide sufficient justification. What that means is that when the grades are tallied up at the end of the quarter, each of the other assignments counts proportionately more and a bad grade in something else will weigh down the average more heavily. This seems fair.
And none of this means that I, as a parent, am obsessed with grades just for the sake of having high grades. If a brilliant student could pass all his tests and other assessments in a G/T level class without doing homework, but got zeros for those assignments because he chose not to do them, do you think he’d be allowed to stay in the G/T program very long? No. The grades have a relevance within the system.
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Matthew–
Very true. But if you can’t persuade the teacher to do what you suggest and if you can’t get your school to allow your child to opt out of homework, then teachermom’s ideas make sense. And I hate to say this, but many of those G/T classes aren’t necessarily more interesting or thought-provoking; they just move at a faster rate so a student can cram in more material to forget.
–Sara
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Good heavens, I don’t say “Hear, hear” to teachermom at all. Her message is basically, “yeah, the homework may be pointless and totally unrelated to learning, but that’s life, suck it up.” This seems like the road to nowhere to me.
There’s a basic contradiction here:
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Never the less we live in a society with rules and you may move away from this society, accept and deal, or fight to change our education system. Meanwhile, everyone, teachers and parents, quit ur bellyaching.
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And how exactly can we fight to change the system without “bellyaching”? Bellyaching is the first step. It shouldn’t be the last step, but it’s the obvious place to start. My only warning is that it’s important to complain to the right people, that is, teachers and administrators. It’s not enough to complain to the other mothers at the bus stop.
If we all took teachermom’s advice, we’d be guaranteed to get no change and we would just have to put up with the status quo. That certainly isn’t my plan.
teachermom says:
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If they care about their child’s GRADES, then they will adjust their value system to include all of the hard work, time, effort, and occassional frustrations and baloney that goes along with earning them.
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In other words, if we care about our child’s grades, we’re not allowed to challenge the school, we just have to make our child do whatever the school requires, even if it’s baloney, even if it’s eating our child’s free time and causing the child to lose sleep. How is this a good idea?
Speaking of contradictions, what about this?
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But let’s all stop the name calling and blaming. There are so many wonderful, dedicated teachers out there who just want what is best for children and many who are turds who need to step down from teaching.
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OK, let’s stop the name calling. I, for one, have never called a teacher a “turd”.
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Fed Up needs to reread. If everyone took my advice, you would have peace. Peace with your decision to deal with homework as is, peace with your decision to go forth and work for changes, peace with your decision put your emotional/time investment into other matters. Bellyaching is not the first step to change, it is the first step towards getting others riled up while everyone says, “They should do something” and leaking poison amongst other parents. Taking action is the first step towards change. I did not call anyone a turd, I merely stated that some are turds. Because there are. Reaching a bit aren’t we?
Seriously, folks, I was a mom before I was a teacher, so I truly understand the non-teacher perspective about the pressures put on students. My child was assigned a project to build a historical victorian mansion out of a cardboard box. The children were taken on tour of the historic neighborhood, learned architectural elements, learned some town history, etc. Great lesson/silly project to US!! Wel laughed as we assembled and painted a cardboard box with windows and fashioned a front porch from a shoebox lid. Tedious and not beautiful. Not a ton learned on that project, although the build up to the project was definitely beneficial . I griped and groaned to anyone and everyone about how pointless this project was and how it was a “mom” project, because the kids could not possible do this on their own. However, when brought to school, our project sat next to a really nice cardboard mansion. Ha, obviously that mom had a lot of time on her hands I muttered to myself. Yet, in this case, the child did the majority of the work himself, barring the cutting of the cardboard. The mom glowed about his project and told anyone who would listen how he had come up with adding the “gingerbread” trim and window shutters out of popscicle sticks. “He wants to be an architect now!” she beamed. Obviously, the stupid, pointless, tedious project to us really caught interest to this little guy. True story boys and girls. Humble pie.
One time I had a student bust into tears as I began to explain the homework for the evening. I pulled her aside to see what was wrong and through sobs she began to explain that she had a lot of homework tonight and it was her sister’s birthday and her family was going out to dinner, party, etc. She was afraid she would have to miss her sister’s birthday. I calmly explained to her that, no, she would not have to miss her sister’s birthday, because sisters and family come first. Losing a few points on her homework was no big deal compared with missing a very special evening with her family. I explained to her that she was a very hard worker who took her learning seriously and her responsibilities very seriously and she should be very proud of herself, but that tonight she would be a sister and not a student.
Folks, this pressure did not come from school. No way. It came from her internally or from family or society.
Parents, re-evaluate where the expectations are truly coming from. Say lights out to the child up at 3am doing a paper. Hind the books from your overachiever if they don’t know balance of learning, success, family, love, nature, spirituality, etc. Let them know that there is no doom and gloom at the end of C, D, or F. Only a desire to accept or change, or accept a little and change a little. If that’s not acceptable to your family, than set your child’s learning priorities and make room for the work. If not, than don’t. Quit blaming teachers for the homework, and start looking at who is putting the pressure on the kids.
I could say with confidence that fewer than 1% of the teachers in this nation would admonish a student if the parent were to come in early in the year and say, “Our family may operate a little differently than most. We encourage our children to be able to pass every test you give. In fact, we encourage and work towards A’s and B’s on the tests and projects that demonstrate his ability to apply his learning. We also encourage our child to participate in —-(activities, church, family time, whatever) and so there will be times when we excuse him from homework. We are prepared for the grades that will result. Please let us know if at time you are concerned about his learning being below average as at that time we will re-evaluate our approach. Meanwhile, we don’t expect him to endure any consequences except for those connected with his grades and we are aware of some of the negative affects this approach may have on college applications, etc. Please direct all your concerns to us. Meanwhile, we want you to know that we expect our child to be respectful and to put in his best effort everyday in your classroom. We appreciate all your hard work and want you to know that we value your time and expertise, but we also appreciate you supporting us raising our child in a way that we believe suits our family’s needs.”
And yes FedUpMom, if you care about your child’s GRADES you must put up with the baloney, because that “baloney” may not be baloney to the other students in that class. In fact, that baloney, may be just the ticket towards understanding or achieving a goal for several of those students. Differentiated learning is a practice that is wonderful and everyone hopes that it will become easier to implement even as class sizes increase…but, until then, there will not be perfection. The great news is, you still have a choice. There are many opportunities to choose private schools who have different policies, or you can homeschool, or you can advocate and begin policy changes within your own schools.
However, schools will never be the perfect haven that adapts an entire curriculum towards your child’s personal needs, nor would teachers with current circumstances be able to implement such a curriculum. (That would be why I said that, ultimately, PARENTS are responsible for your child’s education. Teachers are still striving to help individual students while still working for all their students, just as parents would not want their child to gain if meant the other children may suffer. We all want the same thing. Don’t we?
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Sorry teachermom, I repectfully disagree.
And I disagree so much that I don’t know where to begin.
I’m going to sleep on it.
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